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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Location: Fitchburg, Massachusetts
What prompted this post was seeing that you have dark fantasy lumped with horror.

I have always called my work "dark fantasy." However, recently I began to look for a different term to use.

It's very possible that my definition of dark fantasy has become obsolete. Mine was based on the idea that gritty, dark, and disturbing fantasy regardless of setting = dark fantasy. (such as Karl Edward Wagner's Kane novels).

Back when my books were coming out from Renebooks and I kept landing on the "highest rated in dark fantasy list" and the "bestselling dark fantasy lists" at Fictionwise, it looked to me as if I was the red herring in the barrel. Most of the people with books in that category were thinly veiled (and sometimes not so thinly veiled) paranormal romances.

I am not certain where I would have placed had I been up against books of my own type or against fantasy. But I'm drifting.

Is there a current, generally accepted definition of "dark fantasy" and does it exclude my kind of material?

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Janrae Frank

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:43 pm 
It's suddenly become "vampires". I think we're going to have to start using the term "gothic fantasy" for the non-teen, non-vampire stuff... :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:01 pm 
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I love that smiley

And I like the term Gothic Fantasy.

However, that would not work either.

http://www.janraefrank.com/

Have a look at just what is in the big scroll to the left hand side. Then add in the fact that I've been told by many, many people that if I removed the fantasy aspect, the books would be old time western shoot'em ups.

I don't write short fiction often. I produced one short story in the past two years. I'm not comfortable with the form these days.

I tried a few times calling it "dark epic fantasy," but that's a mouthful. So I stopped.

Now, I am just scratching my head about it all.

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Janrae Frank

Daverana Enterprises
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Personal website
http://www.janraefrank.com

Paladin of Curmudgeonry and old as dirt.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:57 pm 
How about "Darktasy" ?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Location: UK
I like "fantark".


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Wow. I'll put both of those in my next set of categories and search terms and see what happens when I upload the next book.

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Janrae Frank

Daverana Enterprises
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Personal website
http://www.janraefrank.com

Paladin of Curmudgeonry and old as dirt.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Location: Cheshire, UK
Bleak fantasy?
Darkish fantasy?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:08 am 
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Definitions and terms are getting harder to come by these days and it seems that when we come up with a really good one, it gets shanghaied by some other group.

I am finding it very frustrating.

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Janrae Frank

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Paladin of Curmudgeonry and old as dirt.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:03 am 
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Location: Vienna, Austria
I don't think the writer should say which genre a story belongs to. Let the people who read it categorise it the way they feel most comfortable with.

(Yes I'm talking to you Mr Goodkind, you do write fantasy. Idiot.)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:58 am 
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Who is Mr Goodkind?
And why is he an idiot?


Anyway, it is probably best to let readers and editors decide, because they will categorise writers whether we want them to or not.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:26 pm 
Roy wrote:
Bleak fantasy?
Darkish fantasy?


Fant Noir, maybe... :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Well, I used to just call it dark fantasy because that was what my publisher called it. But then I took the rights back from Renebooks in 08 and now I have to deal with those category / search term boxes that Renebooks handled.

I wish I could leave them blank. But now that I'm bringing out my own backlist, I have to put something there. I kind of wish they would just give me a drop down menu of things to choose from, instead of the Great White Spot on the Internet.

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Janrae Frank

Daverana Enterprises
http://www.daverana.com
Personal website
http://www.janraefrank.com

Paladin of Curmudgeonry and old as dirt.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Terry Goodkind, writes those seeker novels, full of magic and stuff. Says it's not fantasy because:

Quote:
Most fantasy is one dimensional. It's either about magic or a world-building [sic]. I don't do either.


I mean really, woman who make you their slaves with a touch and magical barriers that split the land into 3 is not fantasy?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:20 pm 
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I have been appalled by Goodkind's attitudes. He wants his work to be considered "literature."

His swing toward making the logic of his plots secondary to promoting his personal political agenda is irritating.

I have long regarded fantasy as the perfect means by which to isolate certain aspects of human nature and examine them. However, I would not consider what I am writing to be anything but fantasy.

Goodkind's ego runneth over. I stopped reading his work a long time ago. With his ego and agenda out of control, there are huge gaping holes in his plots and characterization.

There is a huge difference between theme, plot, and so forth and all should be held in such a way as to not to overbalance or overtake the other.

If he doesn't want to be considered some type of fantasy then he ought to take the magic out. Otherwise, he's an egotistical hypocrite.

Yes, terms do change in terms of marketing and labels, but in the end it is just a process of trying to find a greater degree of definition, not separatism per se.

The best fantasy has never been one-dimensional. Magic and world-building is a vehicle to story. I'm greatly offended by Goodkind's assertions.

PS: forgive my editing on this I keep finding errors.

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Janrae Frank

Daverana Enterprises
http://www.daverana.com
Personal website
http://www.janraefrank.com

Paladin of Curmudgeonry and old as dirt.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:09 pm 
Let's rename him Badhorrid.


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