Small text iconNormal text iconLarge text icon

INTERACTION

 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MembersMembers   GroupsGroups   RegisterRegister 
 User Control PanelUser Control Panel      LoginLogin 


All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Quotes
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:32 am
Posts: 202
Location: South Yorkshire
I want to put a few relevant lines of poetry/prose before each story in Bull Running for Girls. What are the rules on this? Is it that you can do it for works published 50 years ago? I also found a few lines Robert Bloch said about fear and want to use that too. Any comments?

www.birdsnest.me.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Quotes
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:39 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Aldershot, Hampshire
Allyson Bird wrote:
I want to put a few relevant lines of poetry/prose before each story in Bull Running for Girls. What are the rules on this? Is it that you can do it for works published 50 years ago? I also found a few lines Robert Bloch said about fear and want to use that too. Any comments?

www.birdsnest.me.uk


UK copyright lasts seventy years after the author's death and runs out at the end of the relevant calendar year. So the work of any author who died on or before 31 December 1936 is out of copyright and in three months' time authors who died in 1937 will be in the public domain too. You are allowed to quote up to 400 words for purposes of review or criticism, but it sounds like you want to use your quotes as epigraphs, so you will need permission to quote anything that is still in copyright.

The copyright holder can charge you for the privilege, or deny it altogether. You'll need to approach the author or their estate, or their publisher or agent.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:32 am
Posts: 202
Location: South Yorkshire
Thanks Garry!

I'll have to look further into it all. Yes, I want to use one or two lines for epigraphs. So - are we saying for a couple of lines of poetry from say, William Blake/Shelley or Shakespeare that is fine but for anyone who died after 1937 I have to contact who ever holds the copyright?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:32 am
Posts: 202
Location: South Yorkshire
Sorry - should have said Gary!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:39 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Aldershot, Hampshire
Allyson Bird wrote:
Sorry - should have said Gary!


Hi Allyson,

No problem - I'm used to my name being misspelled, as I suspect you are too! :)

Yes, what you say is correct. As the author you are responsible for clearing permission to quote copyright material (unless it's for review or criticism purposes, when you can quote up to 400 words - known as "fair dealing"). That also makes you the one legally responsible if you don't do this and the copyright holder finds out and sues you!

When I was editing Extended Play, I specified in the guidelines that it was the author who had to find permission to quote song lyrics. This can be very expensive - or they can refuse permission, which happened to a friend of mine who wanted to quote a Jimi Hendrix lyric in her story.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:32 am
Posts: 202
Location: South Yorkshire
Thanks Gary! And congratulations on the award!

I so wanted to use a few lines from The Lake of Innisfree but as Yeats died in 1938 (copyright will be available Dec 1938) and my collection is coming out summer 2008, I won't be able to use it. I'll have to think again.

www.birdsnest.me.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:11 pm
Posts: 2122
Location: Cheshire, UK
Allyson a google on 'poet yeats estate'
found

,Some readers may be wondering "Why go to all this trouble? How likely
is it that Yeats' estate will have a problem with your site even if you
put up any of his poems that you like?" But, as Steven Van Leeuwen
reported on this list last year, lawyers for the Yeats estate and
other authors *do* check the Net for infringing sites, and take action
against them. One author's lawyers were even demanding back royalties
based on the estimated number of past visitors to the site! (As it turned
out, in SVL's case the lawyers went away after being informed that his site
only contained material that was in the public domain in the US. But it
could have turned out very differently if there had been infringing material
on the site.),

at http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/bparchive?year=1998&post=1998-02-16$1

also see http://www.apwatt.co.uk/index.asp?left=permissions1.asp&right=permissions.asp


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:32 am
Posts: 202
Location: South Yorkshire
Test me on this.

So - you can quote a few lines of poetry from poems written by someone before 1936 without problem? Could the heirs copyright it or is it absolutely in the public domain?

Yeats won't be available until Dec 2008 but -
"(Some of the Yeats anthologies in my local library have copyrights on the
poems as late as 1983, due to new versions based on manuscripts owned by
Yeats' heirs.)"
How does everyone read that? - I read it as even though in Dec 2008 it will be 70 years after his death and supposedly in the public domain the heirs have copyright.

Overall - that means although 70 years passes and it should be in public domain - sometimes it isn't. I'm confused.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:11 pm
Posts: 2122
Location: Cheshire, UK
A revision based on old MSS versions is a ploy to update copyright and keep income rolling in but I believe the original version goes out of copyright 70 years after the author's death.

This may not apply in the USA.

Originally it was 50 years I believe but that was raised to 70. Not sure if that means 60 year old stuff went out of opyright and then came back in or stays out once out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:32 am
Posts: 202
Location: South Yorkshire
Thanks Roy,
If I have any doubts I'm writing to the agents/estate that conducts the affairs of the deceased author. That way I will have covered myself. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:39 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Aldershot, Hampshire
Roy wrote:
Originally it was 50 years I believe but that was raised to 70. Not sure if that means 60 year old stuff went out of opyright and then came back in or stays out once out.


Yes it did - this happened in the 1990s as James Joyce and Virginia Woolf (both died 1941) went out of copyright and went back in again when the law changed. I once saw a cheap edition of Portrait of the Artist which came out in the meantime, notable for non-authorised use of quotes for dialogue instead of em dashes!

This length of copyright is a good reason to name a literary executor in your will if you have had work published.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:32 am
Posts: 202
Location: South Yorkshire
At a certain point does poetry in the public domain stay in the public domain? Or is work continuously going in and out of the public domain when copyright is renewed? I'm thinking 100 years or so.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:11 pm
Posts: 2122
Location: Cheshire, UK
Unless the law changes as Gary C described I think it can only come back into copyright if someone revises the text but the old unchanged text remains in public domain.

I could be wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Sherlock Holmes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:22 pm
Posts: 69
Location: The pig-farming bit of Nottinghamshire
That's right, once a work is out of copyright it stays out unless there's a revision to the 'life + 70 years' rule. Perhaps the fact that authors are tending to live longer, coupled with the proliferation of publishing 'channels' will lead to a further extension?

There were some odd cases resulting from the last change. The Sherlock Holmes stories went out of copyright in 1980 (Doyle died in 1930), came back into copyright in the mid 1990s and went back out in 2000. It must have had migraine-inducing implications for those providing free digital texts of classic stories (some of these people had been working since the 1970s - they're not just a www phenomenon).

All the best ... Andy H


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group